Good night

Both the Bible and the Koran (don’t forget that the Old Testament is common to both religions) have some unsavory rules & precepts about them, I find it fortunate that most of Western society has overcome them to a greater extent than most Islamic countries.

http://www.evilbible.com/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/intol_bibl.htm

The Bible:
It does not invite to do crimes, ok, but neighter does the Qur’an directly. It’s what the people read out of it!

Well, the quran actually invites to what we would define as crimes in many suras. Also, the quran is not subject to interpretation as it is the given word of allah. The reason not every muslim is a mudjaheddin is that not every muslim is as pious as the “radicals” (most ppl just have enough to do with their daily life - another reason, btw, why terrorism is notcreated by poverty but by ideology). The problem with islam is

- its lack of reform towards modern ages
- that reform-orientated muslims are branded as apostates and threatend with death and even killed
- its more than a religion, its an ideology. Pious muslims want to live under sharia-law, which is absolutly incompatible with modern democracy and human rights as we know them
- the absolute absence of self-criticism in islam which again leads to the above mentioned stagnation

Ok, but what to do?
The only possibility in my opinion is to help and promote reform-orientated muslims so that a modern islam will be created and spread through the world. Furthermore not only the west but all non-muslim nations have to put pressure on muslim world in order to force them to respect the rights of women and minorities. If we could free the muslimas from the oppression of the muslim man then - maybe - the women could play a big role in changing islam from the violent fascist doctrine it is now into a peaceful faith. Unfortunatly - i think - a lot of blood will flow before this will eventually happen. If it will happen… i hope so.

Well, good night for now

You cannot seriously put 1.5 Billion people in the same pot as Iran’s Mufti and the other radicals that have to be dealt with, can you?

Interesting, didn’t know about the Mufti/Hitler connection. I suppose it was based on mere pragmatism, (just like the Hitler/Stalin pact before WWII) since both wanted to get rid of the Jews.

The Bible:
It does not invite to do crimes, ok, but neighter does the Qur’an directly. It’s what the people read out of it! The Muslims by the way see themselves as the continuation of the Christians and the Jews, they all praise the same God, recognize almost the same bunch of prophets and share lores, so you cannot seperate the ideologies and judge the one without the other. I have read parts of the Qur’an out of curiosity and it IS more tough towards “disbelievers”, almost brutal, so it’s no wonder there are so many radicals within the Islam. However, you cannot prejudge every Islam believer for this, else you’ll end up no better a radical.

To those of you who are afraid the Islam might take over the world: These folks, especially the fundamentalists, the Mullahs, are so much at odds with each other - there’s no chance of an Islamic “world domination”.

Cheers

Don Loc,
Christianity has developed, but it isn’t really worse or better from the Islam base per se. Take the KKK, the Nazis, Bush’s bombing “in the name of god”, they all did it with or for the Christian god just a few years ago. So at least they proclaimed

Don’t get me wrong, i don’t want to white-wash Christianity or any other faith, but you can’t ignore there are fundamental differences between islam and any other religion. islam is not merely a religion but an all-round ideology with political, juridical and religious parts in it. And - unfortunatly - the political and juridical parts are very strong and central aspects not only in the fundamental streams but also in so-called “moderate” islam. I’m not against discussing about problems with christianity but comparing it with islam is like comparing a murderer with a shoplifter so the discussion has to be split off on this matter.

Furthermore the Nazis were atheists, not christians - especially Hitler. Undoubtly there were christians participating in the crimes of the nazis but there is no justification for these crimes in the bible nor does the bible invite to them. The Nazis also had a Muslim-SS-Division, just as a side note ( http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html )

ralphieboy wrote:

Please keep it civil, folks. If you want to trade insults, get each other’s prive atddresses and do it there.

Thanks, your appeal is much appreciated.

Something bothers thou? Call 555-CLAUDIA-HAS-THE-BOMBS

I think I’ll now thankfully sit down and rewrite Eric Idle’s FCC Song just for you Samaritans (http://www.pythonline.com/plugs/idle/FCCSong.mp3).

I would like all of you to know, in Europe, I blame much of the double standards on the European press. I say that because on 9/11 my son was stationed in Germany. Germans came to the fence around the base, in tears, and put flowers in the fence and candles on the ground. Soon, the fence was full of flowers. My phone rang on 9/11. Calls came from Europe and Asia, telling me how very sorry they were for our loss.
But, the double standards exist.

Bush “lied” about weapons of mass destruction. Germany thought they were there as well. Why is not Germany called to account for “lying”?

Abu Ghraid. Members of the military reported abuse that occurred in late 2003. A criminal investigate was launched.. The problem was reported by the military during a news briefing in January and criminal charges were brought in March. The MSM broke the story in April of 2004. Of those directly involved with these shameful actions: . 2 NCOs are now in prison. 5 Specilists are also serving hard time as is Pvt. England.
Contrast this to a case in the 90s. Belgian troops ROASTED a Somali boy! These troops were sentenced to a month in jail and a fine of 200 pounds. Others in the same unit were investigated for sadism and torture. Defense Minister Jean-Pol Poncelet gave assurances that any soldier convicted would be dishonorably discharged. I sure that will make Didier Bourguet relax a bit, IF he ever is brought to trial!
Does anyone but me see a double standard?
On 9/11 our news showed very little. We did not see the people who jumped from the WTC to escape the fire. We saw very little, on the nightly news, of the celebrations in the streets in the Middle East. But, the Internet was available.
What are we suppose to think when we see celebrations in the Middle East, in the street, because of the deaths on 9/11 and little to nothing from the Muslim communities in the USA and from many of the Muslim countries to denounce 9/11?
What are we suppose to think when people are beheaded (actually, their heads were SAWED off, slowly)? There was more condemnation about a Koran flushed down a toilet! (And, please, if anyone believes this actually happened…..try flushing a book down YOUR toilet!)
With the double standard, I have questions. Will Germans help us? Should we help Germany if they do not help us?

I would think you’d thank me Fubar, for making it possible for you to get at least some kind-of action in your panties.